Some morning car troubles to go with my coffee.

"maximillious" (maximillious) 10/29/2013 at 10:39 • Filed to: None

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So this morning I went down to my 2002 SVT Focus that was parked indoors. Got in and turned the key, the engine started to turn but I heard a very soft thud and then the engine wouldn't completely turn over. I tried again and could hear it trying but still not turning all the way over. I got out and opened the hood and I heard a very quiet bubbling sounds, as if an oil was draining from somewhere in the car. Went and got my GF to come down and try to start it while i stare blankly and confused at the engine. While she was attempting to start it while I watched I saw no motion from any belts or fans or anything at all. Then i noticed the large mount of oil/coolant or something flowing from beneath the car to the nearby drain.

Any oppos out there have any idea what this may be? Keep in mind I am as mechanically inclined as a gerbil.

Thank opponaughts.

Casper > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:42

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It was oil? At first as I was reading I thought you lost a freeze plug or something, but if you both can't turn the engine over and have oil leaking, it's a much bigger issue than that. Can you see where the oil is leaking from? Can you jack the car up? When you crank, does anything move at all? Are you sure you don't just have an oil leak AND a dead battery?

maximillious > Casper 10/29/2013 at 10:43

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I just made the edit to my post. It could have been coolant or something. It was leaking from what appeared to be the front middle maybe a litttle closer to the passenger side

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:44

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Check your timing belt/tensioners.

Also check under the car, sounds like the oil pan/plug gave out.

maximillious > Casper 10/29/2013 at 10:44

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It was an oily consistancy.

maximillious > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/29/2013 at 10:45

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I know that those can be an issue on this car. I thought that might be it. but it might also be coolant which I edited in my post to say. its coming from the front middle of the car more towards the passenger side

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:47

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What color was it?

Casper > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:47

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If it were a freeze plug you should be able to turn it over still. Either there is fluid in the piston(s), you aren't actually cranking, or the engine is stock/froze/seized if it doesn't move when you try to crank. How cold has it been around there?

Edit: Check this out
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthre…

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:47

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What color was the liquid. Oil is usually brownish black and coolant is usually green.

505Turbeaux > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:47

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I was chiming in to say this same thing. Wouldnt cause the fluid leak if it snapped on a start I wouldnt think. Pull the cover off and check it. Dont try and start any more until checking!

timateo81 > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:49

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when was the last time you drove it?

how old is the battery?

do other accessories turn on? radio, headlights, etc?

how much is "a large amount" of fluid?

Nibbles > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:49

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did it smell or taste sweet?

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:50

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Fluid color...if it's dark brown to black, that's motor oil. Check the oil pan and drain plug.

Also have the battery tested. Depending on it's age, it may be giving out finally.

Always check the easy stuff first... but don't crank the engine until you find out what's going on.

BigRed03 > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:51

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I, too, own a 2003 SVTf. Make sure your intake manifold is together. There are two pieces connected by rubber couplers right under the fuel rail (firewall side of the engine). With age, these give out and eventually the intake pops off (frequently at start up). This may have dislodged one of the heater hoses or hit and ruptured the oil cooler which is at the oil filter.

You mention the acc drive isn't turning....without a jack and stands you can't view the starter...

timateo81 > timateo81 10/29/2013 at 10:53

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first, check fluid levels to make sure there's nothing major missing.

second, pull your spark plugs and see if there's a bunch of fluid chaos going on inside there.

you're going to need to address the starting issue next. rule out battery by checking that terminals are clean (use wire brush), connections are good, and it's charged. if that doesn't work, move to the starter and diagnose that, but i think you won't need to go this far.

once you get all that sorted, attempt to start the car briefly with the plugs out. that way if there is fluid in the cylinders it won't prevent the car from starting. but only let it run for like a second (long enough to know it can start).

then start tracking down the fluid loss.

if at any time you realize something is VERY wrong, return to internet.

maximillious > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/29/2013 at 10:53

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I would say it was goldish. it looked like clean oil, but my oil was changed probably 3 k ago.

maximillious > Casper 10/29/2013 at 10:54

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I live in wisconsin but the car is kept in a heated underground garage...68 degrees usually.

maximillious > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 10/29/2013 at 10:56

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This was a goldish color i would say. It was a clear color not foggy or dirty. To me it looked like clean oil but my oil was changed about 3k miles ago

maximillious > Nibbles 10/29/2013 at 10:56

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I didnt smell or taste it? what would I be looking for if i did

wabbastang > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:57

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1. Call a tow truck

2. Find another way to work

Fixed.

Edit: But kudos to you for owning a niche performance car and not distinguishing between oil and water.

maximillious > timateo81 10/29/2013 at 10:58

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All electrical works, I drive it Daily, yesterday at 6pm I drove it home without issue. The amount of fluid looks like alot. enough to run 4 feet across a dry dusty garage floor and make it to a drain. I could hear the liquid quietly gurgle out when i first poppped the hood

maximillious > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/29/2013 at 10:59

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Battery was new in Feb. when i bought the car

Color was a clear golden color,

Casper > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 10:59

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I would check freeze plugs, battery, and starter. Better to start optimistically. Determine if it really is oil or if it's coolant. If those look ok and the engine is not turning, I would pull the spark plugs and try again. If they are full of fluid you will know... and it will soon shoot everywhere from one of the plug holes. If not, you might want to start thinking about the starter not actually working at all, engine being totally stuck (I'd try turning it manually, but not sure how hard it would be for you), and looking under the car for the leaks.

maximillious > wabbastang 10/29/2013 at 10:59

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haha stole girlfriends car....its a saturn :( with auto :(

Nibbles > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:01

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Coolant has a distinct sweet smell and taste. It's an obvious sweet that lingers in the back of your sinuses like synthetic sugar. Just a slight whiff of the stuff is an immediate giveaway. Oil, whether new or old, does not smell sweet at all. Actually it smells like next-to-nothing new, and smells like burnt (best way to describe it) when old. If you take a sniff and just think "is this sweet or not?" you'll have your answer.

Now if it's a milky brown goop that has a slight sweet tinge to it, that's a completely different beast, and you're probably fucked. That means coolant has been mixing with oil and you have head gasket failure or a cracked head / block

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:01

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Maybe your engine is squeaky clean. Goldish viscous liquid is def oil. Obviously don't drive the car. You need to get up under it to see where its coming from.

maximillious > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 10/29/2013 at 11:05

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Yeah i couldnt drive it if I wanted to, it will not start at all. I am at work now but that is my intention.

maximillious > Nibbles 10/29/2013 at 11:06

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It is definitely not COolant then, the color is golden, and it smells like nothing. its not mixed with anythign because the consistency is all the same.

Nibbles > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:13

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Good, good. That means it's oil, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, or brake/clutch fluid.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:18

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Front middle sounds like the T-stat housing, which is notoriously weak plastic.

Call Steve at Tasca Auto in MN and get the upgraded housing kit. You'll need to source a brass plug for an extra hole.

offroadkarter > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:20

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Well at this point I would say have it towed to a shop, but if you are determined to do it yourself...

You haven't overheated it or anything have you? I'm wondering if the reason it won't turn over is because you have coolant in your cylinders and it physically cant. I would say you can take the sparkplugs out and try cranking it, and see if anything spits out the plug holes.

maximillious > timateo81 10/29/2013 at 11:43

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Thanks for this checklist. This is certainly going to help! The engine is super clean because that is how I keep it, so recognizing something out of place on it should be a little easier.

maximillious > offroadkarter 10/29/2013 at 11:44

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It will probably end up at a shop. I know it wasn't overheated last night because no lights came on and the temp gauge read normal. However, I wish i had looked at my pressure gauge as I parked in case that was the issue.

offroadkarter > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:48

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how many miles on the car?

maximillious > offroadkarter 10/29/2013 at 11:52

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45k. The car is pretty immaculate. Here is the thing tho. I spoke to my GF who was doing some dectective work around the car. She says she noticed that my rear driverside wheel looks like it drove through some of the same fluid that is leaking as I pulled into my spot last night. This is a 02 SVT and it has an issue with an unstable and falling idle. Generally when I pull into my spot I clutch and slowly pull in. It is during the time that the car starts to drop its idle so low that it will stall. Last night it did this but recovered the RPMs at the last second and pulled in and parked. I think that the rattle from that moment may have nudged something loose and this morning when I tried to start it knocked whatever was loose completely off.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:55

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Hmm, thats the only fluid I could think of that would have that color/consistency.

offroadkarter > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 11:56

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45k its safe to assume you didn't snap the timing belt and bend the valves

pull the sparkplugs (or even A sparkplug) out and look down the hole with a flashlight, see if you see anything foreign in there.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 12:02

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Sounds like coolant. The new low silicate coolants from Ford are gold instead of green.

timateo81 > maximillious 10/29/2013 at 14:11

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I'm voting head gasket

1. Battery has a charge but engine won't turn over. hypothesis = hydraulic lock of pistons caused by coolant and or oil entering cylinders.

2. brown fluid running below car (and lots) - see pic above of coolant/oil mixture.

3. decel rpms at idle makes kinda fits the mold too.

the only problem with my head gasket theory is the copious fluid on the ground. if you were passing that much through your exhaust mainfold you'd be running a smoke cloud the size of texas behind your car.

maximillious > timateo81 10/29/2013 at 14:34

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The thing is is that the fluid on the ground is a clear golden color and isnt mixed like the liquid in your picture. The shitty idle thing is something that plagues the SVT focus because of a rushed Engine tune. This idle issue only happens when the AC or heat is on. After doing more and more research on this and talking to a SVT expert it seems that it might be one of the coolant hoses acting up. The Coolant was recently changed with Fords Yellow coolant about 2-3 months ago which would account for the color.